Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

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Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby urimarg » Mon May 25, 2015 10:22 am

Hi, I have been playing crpgs since 1983 pretty much everything including eob series, might and magic and all other 3d crawlers up to and including grimrocks and yours. I can tell you without a doubt that level scaling is terrible and kills all the enjoyment for me.

Are you aiming for mass market or niche rpg gamers likes me? I am sure any niche gamers who are your real customers will tell you mostly the same. STEER away from level scaling. Popamoles and people who have not thought things through enough are the only people who like scaling.
I wont go into the million reasons why its sloppy and makes any meaningful choice in the game pointless I am sure you can scan some forums rpg codex etc and find a million posts by long time gamers saying why.

I went into a level 1 easy mission with my level 3 party and the enemies were the same level as me.

I edited this post to say that despite the level scaling you still have a really awesome product that seems to be a labor of love.
I will keep playing as it is bringing me enjoyment. Thats the thing that really determines if its a good game or not.

But pleaaasssse get rid of the scaling.
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Re: Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby Aelyria » Wed May 27, 2015 9:04 am

Hi Urimarg,

Thanks for the input and glad to hear you are enjoying the game despite level scaling issues. I just wanted to let you know our plan for StarCrawlers is to have all of the main campaign missions crafted for a specific difficulty and level suggestion with no scaling. Only randomly generated side missions will scale to the players level. That's the only way for us to have the randomly generated missions, which are going to add a lot of replayability and extra play time to the game in the long run. But we definitely didn't want to do that for the main story missions, probably for a lot of the same reasons you and many others don't like level scaling :)

I'll also say that the level scaling metric is still a work in process even for those random side missions. We're scaling across multiple player levels and multiple difficulty settings and its going to take a bit of iteration to get a perfect balance on those and make them make sense.
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Re: Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby LordBlade » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:51 pm

I have to agree that level scaling in general is a terrible thing.

But as far as randomized missions, I think the best thing to do would be to have a group of missions generated around the group's level. So if they're a bunch of level 20 characters, you should see missions from 16 to 22 or so. That way there's some variety, a few easier missions if the group's gear isn't up to spec, or some harder ones for better challenge and rewards.

As for enemies though, I do have to say that the level scaling is feeling rather tedious. Oh look, Peas, which I fought at level 1, that I'm now fighting at level 20 and simply have vastly inflated stats. Sigh.

Maybe give enemies a "Mark" system, to show that they're improving with the players. So 1-5 is the basic Pea. 6-10 is the Pea Mk II. Etc. And give them some colour variation or something to show that they're improved models and not just magically super powered versions of the exact same thing you've been fighting all along.
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Re: Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby Phaeroth » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:05 pm

As it stands, something of the present scaling (either mission level or creature difficulty) is far too steep right now.

I have one game where the party at level 9 is stalled; I can't complete missions simply because I get wiped in two, maybe three battles on the easiest non-level-one missions.

The game I just started, I reached that point at level 4.

Both games are on regular difficulty. I also have almost completely up-to-date gear for my party, so it's not that, I'm pretty sure.

I mean, I don't mind a little difficulty or even desperation in my games, but I'd like to be able to make it past the third room in a mission before getting squished; that's just not fun. The worst part of this is, I'm browsing through the forum and see people talking about how absurdly easy the battles are, and I literally cannot fathom how this is happening for people given how ruthlessly quickly my team gets slaughtered.
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Re: Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby Aelyria » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:06 am

Just wanted to let you guys know that we will be taking a hard look at level scaling and loot drops in the near future. We are aware that the current scaling is too steep and that loot drops are not keeping up. We are focusing on getting our top tier abilities in right now (which should help to address difficulty issues as well), once we have all the abilities in and working, we'll be able to make some changes to level scaling which should make things significantly more balanced.
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Re: Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby Emmeric » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:25 pm

Phaeroth wrote:The worst part of this is, I'm browsing through the forum and see people talking about how absurdly easy the battles are, and I literally cannot fathom how this is happening for people given how ruthlessly quickly my team gets slaughtered.


Ha, yeah. Been playing CRPGs since 1983. I'm situated on all 3 of my test groups at the easiest game setting and still finding amazing challenge on green "Normal" missions. Corsairs in groups of five can decimate my party before I even get a move in sledgewise in the very first encounter. Found I sometimes need a supply of medkits. On the easiest setting? I've even been embarrassed a couple times when on the second fight of a normal mission my group can no longer be reasonably expected to survive another fight.

There's a reason there are settings. Easy should not be hard. Hard should be hard.

Been desperately trying to find a viable combo on EASY without having to resort to Soldier-Void Psyker base force.
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Re: Love the game but Please no level scaling! (edited)

Postby Aelyria » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:22 am

We're working on a few features that should make it easier for us to do balancing, but its definitely a process so it may take us some time to get it perfect. We are working on this though.
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